Welcome to the Millennial Lawyer Podcast with Mark Shirian, my name is Kevin Rosenquist and thank you so much for being here and today for our first episode we actually have a special guest as well, Sanford Rubenstein is with us. Mark can you introduce the relationship that you guys have and talk about how Sanford has influenced your career.

Sure so first of all, Sandy thank you so much for being here today on my first episode of the

Millennial Lawyer Podcast. 

I want to say it’s a pleasure to be your first guest and I hope your first show is a smash success. 

Oh yeah it’s going to be huge.

Sure will be. So Sandy and I met, I actually was it was an evening in June of 2019. I was walking up Park Avenue and I had made a right onto 64th in park and I saw Sandy speaking to a couple outside of a restaurant that was formerly Omar’s. I don’t know if you remember Omar’s. 

Of course. 

I approached and I introduced myself and I told him that I have my own law firm and I was just starting out and I’d love to meet up with him at a later time and he gave me his card and I called him the next day and he’s like you know what why don’t we meet up at the place that I met you at for dinner tonight, so we went out and I recall I paid for dinner that night and ever since then we’ve had a great relationship, we talk almost daily about cases that we’re working on and about strategy and it’s been the greatest thing to happen to my career, having a mentor as esteemed and established as Sandy Rubenstein. 

So and we’ve had great success, you know, my Law Firm Rubenstein is very very busy and we get cases that we say, you know, what if we were young, progressive lawyers we take it but we’re so busy with the cases we’re handling now we don’t so I saw the relationship with Mark as an opportunity to take those cases which we might not have taken and see what we can do with them. Well I got to tell you something, we get amazing results. There was a case that we settled for a million and a half dollars that my firm might have passed on because Mark and I worked together on the case and basically got a settlement that we never expected to get because at the end of the day, after the preliminary proceedings were done in the case it was clear that there was liability and damages.

So I guess the real question is who paid for dinner after that one? 

Mark’s been paying for all the dinners.

That’s awesome. Mark what does mentorship mean to you? 

You know in this business, in the legal business, in this practice so many different things come up and it’s very important to get things out of your system. You’re going to see things as a young lawyer, you’re going to see things that it’s going to be for the first time and it might be scary it might be a little uncomfortable and having a mentor, a seasoned mentor, who’s been around the block, who’s seen almost everything, it’s

meant a lot to my career because I know that anything that comes across my way I could speak to Mr Rubenstein about. He has an opinion on and you know it helps me in my practice because there’s nothing that comes across my way that he hasn’t seen, so it’s it’s very important for a young lawyer even if someone like me who’s out on their own to have someone maybe not in-house but but an a more seasoned attorney to give advice and to give instruction. 

What kind of key moments from your career would you say might have been like lessons from, you know, landmark cases you know, things that maybe you grew professionally, grew personally? 

Something that really sticks out I think the biggest thing that I’ve learned is not to judge clients and cases at first. Sometimes you get a case and you think it’s the greatest case in the world and it turns out that it’s not. Sometimes clients come in and it doesn’t sound like such a great case but turns out that it very much is a meritorious case. So one thing that I’ve learned that’s been very important is when I get a call not to prejudge or not be so quick to judge rather on the merits of the case and to examine to do as much research as possible on a case because you really never know. 

As Sandy said, cases can be a seven, eight figure case or something else so be very diligent with respect to how you’re evaluating the case. 

Sandy, is there anything, I mean you’ve had a long and storied career, is there, was there any one case that you can go back to kind of that sparked something in you maybe turning point in your career or something that you always kind of mentally go back to? 

Well absolutely. It was the Ala police torture case where an Asian immigrant was tortured by the police in a bathroom of a police station that basically put my name on the map as a nationally prominent trial lawyer. I just got back from a convention in Brazil where I addressed a group of lawyers and judges. One of the things we’re very lucky about here in America is that we have the jury system because the jury system gives an opportunity for everyone in the public to level the playing field and get an opportunity to get damages in cases that they’re entitled to. For example, we just finished the case in my

office where the jury came back with a $90 million verdict. Now people might say $90 million, well this man lost his arm and his leg in the train accident. The train operator, the deposition testified oh yeah, I saw a pile of garbage on the tracks so I didn’t slow down well. The fact of matter is that pile of garbage was a man who fell on the tracks and suffers for the rest of his life. Now that jury system really makes a difference because this jury came back with a verdict of $90 million. The appeal division will of course have to look at it to see if it’s successful, but this case is a case which demonstrates the importance of the jury system and that’s why we’re very lucky in this country particularly, in this state to have a jury system. 

In personal injury cases have you guys worked together on any impactful cases that kind of stick out to you? 

We’’re doing one case now together in which a young adolescent basketball star died after he jumped into the river because his friends dared him to do that because the coach who was supposed to be with him because his mother wouldn’t let him go there unless the coach went with him wasn’t there, didn’t show up. This is a case that demonstrates particularly to other members of the educational establishment that if you don’t do what you promise a parent you will do, you will get sued with damages and it will be publicized so that the public will know your wrongdoing. So it doesn’t happen to anyone else. 

Wow, that’s a crazy story. 

We were the first attorneys to bring a case under the general business against manufacturers. We represented a victim of the April 2022 Subway shooting and in that case a glock gun was used for that attack. Sanford’s office got the client, had reached out to his office we weren’t sure if it was a case and I looked into it and I told Sandy that, you know, what if we can find out the manufacturer of this gun we might have a case against the gun manufacturer based on a on the new law that was actually the last law that Andrew Cuomo signed before he res signed. This law holds gun manufacturers accountable for their negligent marketing and distribution of their guns and from what I understand we were the first ones to file suit under this new law. The cases still stayed because there have been appeals on the constitutionality of this law but that was, and still is I think, if this can get through the second circuit, this will be a monumental case because for the first time in a long time, you can now hold gun manufacturers accountable for gun violence. If you are a victim of gun violence, for their negligent and reckless marketing and distribution. One of the things that’s important is how we use the opportunity we have in these difficult cases to make a point. Gun violence is a real problem in this city, in this country, and we try to hold gun manufacturers liable. We hope the appeals division will rule in our favor so that we can proceed. This case is a very important concept so we take those cases that other lawyers might not take. Horrible damages ruined a woman’s life but the fact of the matter is something has to be done and the trial has an opportunity to make a real difference in this state and country. 

Wow that’ll be interesting to keep up with because that’ll be that could be very pivotal what you guys are doing right now with that. That’s incredible. Sandy, did you have mentors as well when you were younger? 

To tell you the truth, I  learned from the seat of my pants. But one of the things I would tell lawyers is get into the courtroom, try your cases, learn from experience, don’t be afraid to try your cases. And if you look at the statistics, 90% of the cases settle after a jury is selected and the defendants are afraid about getting a jury verdict in the case. So then they get real with you in terms of damages if that makes sense. 

What does it mean to you to be a mentor? 

Well I think it’s important that young lawyers not only try the case in the courtroom but also try the case in the court of public opinion. I have known in our cases opportunities that we’ve had to try up in the court of public opinion. Particularly on issues which affect not just the victim that we’re representing, but the general public. 

You again, you’ve been in this for a while, how has the legal industry changed over the years? I mean I’m sure it’s changed a lot but what’s kind of been the biggest impact and in your opinion what should lawyers focus on today? You know you mentioned going to trial but what else should people focus on? 

No I think lawyers need to take cases that make a difference in terms of the public, take a case that means a lot to your client but also makes a difference in terms of the public’s future with regard to the

particular issue that we’re dealing with. So I think lawyers should take cases, represent victims to the best of their ability, but particularly cases that have an effect on the public at large. 

What do you think, has there been any one change that you’ve seen that’s really been kind of impactful?

The one thing that happened particularly in auto cases was a no fault statute and that means that you have to need a certain threshold in order to be able to get damages for pain and suffering. We thought at that time wow, the industry is really going to change. Now because those cases in which people suffered but didn’t suffer permanent damage can’t be brought, so the truth of the matter is that changed to some

degree. The cases that we take, minor soft tissue injuries you can’t get damages for pain and suffering. But the other thing that’s really important is the verses that take place which demonstrate how you can get damages in cases that might be difficult. I’ve known lawyers over the years or former lawyers over the years that become disillusioned pretty young in their career and go completely in other directions which has always always fascinated me because you spend so much time and money on schooling and then and it’s just they decide it’s not for them. 

How do you guys both balance such, you know, intense careers while still having a personal life and sort of keeping your head together? 

Well I got to tell you, something for me, becoming a tri lawyer was the greatest thing I ever did because I love representing victims. I love trying to make a difference in society with the cases that we have, and it gives you an opportunity also to be a voice for those who don’t have a voice and I think that that’s a very special thing. 

What about you Mark? 

You know the way I look at it is, you know, you go to a doctor for healing. Doctors provide health. Lawyers

provide justice. Clients come to us, it’s up to us to advocate for them, to make sure that the justice system is healing however they were violated so that’s how I look at it and it’s important, you know, to have a life outside of the law so you’re in the best possible shape to advocate at the highest level. That’s very important to me. It’s very easy to get burnt out. I’ve never met anyone with more energy than Sandy for his age. Regardless of his age, he has the energy of a 25 year old and I hope when I’m your age I’m just as energetic and youthful. 

Well I wish Mark the same kind of career that I’ve had and it ain’t over yet, look at the end of the day we not only get victims damages make a difference in the public but we also have the opportunity to lobby the legislators who get to make the laws so that if we believe that laws should be changed or we believe that the legislature needs to enact laws to protect the public we have a voice and that’s another very important voice in being a lawyer. The voice to lobby those who make the laws, to get the laws changed when necessary. 

For any other millennial lawyers that are listening to this show, do you guys have any tips or tricks for sustaining longevity in this field? 

Just keep doing it, I mean at the end of the day we can only represent those people who come to us to represent them. Once we get the cases, we run with them and don’t be afraid to try your cases. Don’t be afraid to take the verdicts. Although most of the time the case is going to settle either after a house pick or during trial, don’t be afraid to take your verdicts. This $90 million verdict we got two weeks ago, terrible case. Most lawyers wouldn’t have taken it because it was a man who fell on the tracks. At the end of the day, take those cases to make a difference to the public. Now those who operate trains hopefully will learn a lesson from this case. 

I would say to meet as many people as you possibly can. It is so paramount. I miss the days prep when all I did was go to court every day and I would meet other lawyers who still refer cases. Just meet as many people as you can, expand your network as much as you can, and let people know exactly what you do because if something does come up, you’ll be the first one that they think about. You know, if there’s any sort of issue in New York City, in Brooklyn especially, I know that Mr Rubenstein’s name is one of the first to come up. He’s known for for being an advocate and for fighting for justice that’s what

he’s known for so I would say to meet as many people as you can. 

How important do you think it is for other millennial lawyers to find a trusted mentor like what has your experience as a mentee taught you? 

I highly recommend it. It is such a great experience because you’re not expected to know everything all at once and this is a business. Practice of law takes a long time to learn everything that you really need to learn. I’m still learning every day. The information that you get from a mentor is priceless and it just speeds up your time as far as getting to know what you need to know to actually litigate these cases and to be a strong advocate for your clients. So I highly recommend finding a mentor, even if it’s not a mentor that practices the law that you practice, you know, the ethics laws are the same for all the lawyers. So that also, whether it’s an attorney that’s in your practice area or within your state, you know, I go to conferences and I meet lawyers from other states. I know lawyers that practice different areas of law and you’re always learning something, so someone who’s been around the block, who can, you know, that you can learn a tremendous amount from. It’s very important because it just speeds up the time that it will take for you to be a better lawyer. 

Sandy, last question. Do you think you’ll retire someday or is that not even on your radar? 

That’s a dirty word. I don’t really think about it. I just keep going. I’m fortunate that my firm is very busy, very successful. I’m of counsel to the firm now and we have a reputation in the city, state, country, that we get results for our our victims and and I wrote a book, The Outrageous Rubenstein: How a Media-Savvy Trial Lawyer Fights for Justice and Change, and if you think about that title, you think of how important it is for lawyers to fight for justice for their clients, and how important is that. We have the system of justice we have in our country.

Yeah alright, well thank you everyone for joining us on the Millennial Lawyer Podcast with Mark Shirian and, of course, special guest Sanford Rubenstein. If you’d like to get in touch with Mark, please visit shirianpc.com and be sure to like and subscribe to our channel and follow us for all sorts of great insights. Mark, Sanford, thanks so much for being here, really good to see you guys.

Well I thank Mark for having me as his first guest, thank you.

Thank you, thank you for being here.

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