[Music] Welcome to the Millennial Lawyer Podcast. I’m Evan Mack and I’m here with attorney Mark Shirian. In today’s episode, we’re breaking down New York’s look back laws, specifically the child victims act and the adult survivors act and how they’re helping abuse survivors pursue long awaited justice. Welcome back, Mark. 

Happy to be here. 

Awesome. Awesome. So what is a look back window and how does it affect the statute of limitation for abuse survivors? 

Okay, so as you know every civil claim has a statute of limitations whether it’s a year, two years, three years, breach a contract in New York, the statute of limitations is six years. When that statute of limitations expires, you are basically barred from ever bringing a claim. But this look back window allows people to go back in time basically and pursue claims that are otherwise time barred. So it’s really been a game changer giving people justice to those previously banned cases that were barred by time limits.

Do you know who advocated for that or was that something that a specific case that kind of brought that on, that kind of changed the game a bit off the top of your head? 

Yeah. So, off the top of my head in New York back in 2019, the Child Victim Act was in effect and it was going to be from 2019 to 2020, but because of COVID, they extended it to 2021. So, it was a two-year window. And this was really aimed because the Child Victim Act covers childhood abuse up to the age 18. Um, while the Adult Survivors Act addresses abuse after 18, like in the workplace or institutions, both offer a one-year filing window. So, for that one year or two years, you could go back in time and bring a claim that was otherwise untimely, and now it’s all of a sudden timely to bring that. 

Can you unpack the Child Victim Act and the Adult Survivors Act a little more? You know, how do they differ in scope and eligibility? 

Well, in New York, the abuse had to have occurred in New York. Um, and the Child Victim Act was any abuse that occurred up to the age of 18. I would say the difference between the Child Victim Act and the Adult Survivors Act is that with the Child Victim Act, you don’t have to prove consent or disprove consent. You can’t consent if you are under 18 years old, right? But with the adult survivors act, which could make it a little bit more difficult, a defense could be, well, there was consent, so they consented to this, right? Whatever had occurred. So, that’s the one difference between the two in that consent becomes more of an issue when you’re talking about the adult survivors act. 

So, what’s the process like for filing a claim under these specific laws? Let’s say it’s decades of abuse. How do you do that? 

Well, as far as filing a claim, you would file the lawsuit, making sure that it’s filed within, you know, within that time, a timely window. Um, but yes, what makes these claims difficult is when you’re talking about abuse in the 70s or the 80s, it is very difficult to obtain a lot of the documents. If you’re talking about a teacher or a student, it’s hard to get those records from way back when and it’s also hard to get medical records that occurred around that time. So, you know, we try to gather survivor statements, old records, witness accounts, corroborating evidence like therapy notes. We also use the class picture. We had a case where the abuse occurred in 1958. 

Wow. 

You imagine 1958 and my client still had his class picture from that time period and that actually, I won’t get into it too much, but it was helpful in demonstrating his credibility as far as the teacher that he had at that at that year and how old he was and where his school was. It was able to prove that he matriculated into that school, into that classroom at that time in 1958. So, you never know. You got to use as much as you can when you’re talking about cases that occurred that long ago. 

Have you ever won a case without documentation? 

Very hard. I mean, it’s definitely possible, but I have successfully handled cases without documentation. But wow. What comes into play is the credibility of your client. Your client is not credible. You could have as much documentation as you want, but if your client isn’t credible, it’s going to be tough. But if you don’t have any documents, but your client comes off as credible and has a good memory as to what occurred, then you might be in an even better position than with a lot of documentation, if that makes sense. 

It does. Wow. So, how does your firm approach um sensitive cases with trauma-informed care? 

We prioritize listening and trust. We, you know, I I try to really put myself in my client’s shoes. And the other what’s interesting about these cases is, you know, if someone gets into a car accident, it’s it’s more of a recent thing and you’re kind of waiting and seeing how it’s going to impact them. Hopefully, it doesn’t. Early on, you don’t really have an idea of how it’s affected them, right? Because they still need to get treatment. They still, you know, you don’t know the extent of their injuries. When you’re talking about abuse that occurred 20 years ago, 30 years ago, 40 years ago, 50 years ago, you can see how it affected them, how it affected their life. Did they have a life full of drug abuse in jail and unable to keep a job? You’re able to see how it’s affected them. So, how do we handle these survivors? You have to be extremely sensitive to the life that they weren’t able to live as a result of the abuse that they endured. So, again, how do we approach it? Listening, trust, and we have to move at their pace and avoid re-traumatizing questions. And we also need to connect our clients with counseling to support them through the process. Because it’s opening up old wounds that they don’t really even discuss with anyone other than us. So that’s how I see these cases. 

Can you speak more to the emotional or legal challenges, you know, survivors typically face, you know, when they come forward? You know, because I’m sure the coming forward part might be the hardest part to do. 

Emotionally, it’s reliving trauma or facing disbelief. Legally, evidence from decades ago is hard to find. And defendants often fight to dismiss. So, a strong lawyer counters these hurdles for sure. So, when it comes to that and you encounter these, do you put something in place? Do you recommend anybody, you know, any counseling, any therapy before you kind of tackle these, you know, just kind of to maybe to to maybe to loosen up a person that might have trepidations about pursuing something like this? 

Like I said, we have to go at their pace. So, I would never try to suggest something to get information out of them. Uh, but we do need enough from them. I mean, that is a good question. We need enough from them to get the bare bones as to what occurred. So, where it happened, trying to pin down the entity where it occurred. A lot of times these schools don’t even exist anymore. So, figuring out who the legal entities are and trying to track down what sort of treatment they’ve had already and maybe working off of that. A lot of times they’ve gotten treatment before or maybe they haven’t gotten any treatment at all and it’s very difficult when you’re talking about adults and they’re coming to you about things that happened to them as children. It’s very hard to undo that. 

I like to ask you questions about success stories in your firm just because I think it illustrates how you guys handle business. Do you have one that kind of illustrates the importance of these laws that we discussed in action? 

Yeah. So, that one case that I had told you about where our client was alleging sex abuse while he was at school on a on a school trip, we went back in time and although we didn’t have any documentation proving that there was abuse, through his testimony and through his credibility and through the cases that we were able to, case law that we were able to research, we were able to negotiate a $1.55 million settlement for abuse that occurred in 1958 to my client who was at the time he was seven years old. 

So incredible. That was really incredible. 

Really incredible. And this client was, you know, think about what life was like in 1958. This was not something that people would really even want to talk about. Um, and he kept on mentioning his mom, how his mom was really advocating to try to fight. The school got him into a different school and he felt that by pursuing this case, he was continuing his mother’s legacy. And it was a beautiful thing when this case was resolved after all these years dealing with all that pain. To be heard and to be compensated for that sort of horrible sort of situation gives me a lot of joy because it shows me that what we’re doing at my firm and with my staff is really making a difference in people’s lives and that we’re here for a reason. Although we can’t go back in time and change what happened, we can pursue justice for our clients so they can live the rest of their life with dignity and hopefully put this horrible thing behind them. 

Yeah. That has to feel good though, Mark. You know, uh, you know, I know money money doesn’t change the abuse, but that has to feel good to be able to to put that kind of wrong writing in in some capacity. Like, how you guys had to be proud of that. Extremely proud. 

Extremely proud that you know and I’m grateful that these new laws give us the opportunity to represent these clients that otherwise we would never even know about them. We would never even know about their story. So, I’m grateful to have a hand in their path to justice. I really am. 

We started off talking about, you know, the windows and the statutes. Do you expect these to be extended, you know, for maybe new survivor focused legislation? 

That’s a good question. I just can’t think of anything. I mean, they opened it up for the child abuse and they opened it up for the adult survivors. You know, advocates are pushing for extensions and new laws are possible as awareness grows. I think states like California are expanding windows and other states. But whether it happens in New York again, I would say I highly doubt it happening again in New York. But I do. I do think that you’ll see it in other states. Other states will follow what New York has done, which has been excellent. 

Thank you for the time, Mark. I appreciate you. 

Thank you so much. Pleasure. 

And thank you all for watching. If you or someone you know is eligible to file under these laws, connect with Mark at shirianpc.com. This is the Millennial Lawyer Podcast. Thank you for listening, subscribing, and spreading that awareness. Thanks for watching. Be sure to hit that like and subscribe button and leave us a review in the comments.